Newcastle vs Blackburn 5. mai 2007 - Har vi gått fremover eller bakover?

[Flatline]

So Glenn at last got his wish and wrote the name of Michael Owen on a teamsheet at SJP.

Unfortunately for him, the other names that he penned once again left him quite literally defenceless in the eyes of both Freddy and the fans.

Our immediate post-match inquest ended with the message that Roeder had "nowhere to go".

That was then rubber-stamped at a hastily-convened meeting on Sunday at which his 15 month tenure came to an end with immediate effect, not even allowed a valedictory farewell at his old Watford stamping ground.

While the post-match "protest" outside the Milburn Reception was trotted out as proof that the natives were agitating for change, the real story was to be found the gaps in the stands as another below-par home campaign petered out.

Quite simply the fans voted with their feet, registering a motion of "no confidence" in the administration.

Not for the first time though, that was interpreted by the powers that be as "sack the manager".

If nothing else, Shepherd has at least given whoever becomes our sixth manager in the decade since Keegan abdicated slightly more of a run-up to their first campaign in charge.

The comparative luxury of a pre-season and a full transfer window weren't accessible to messrs Dalgish, Gullit, Robson, Souness or Roeder - none of whom began a season at the helm.
There again, that didn't do Roeder much good second time round....

Whoever arrives though faces the same problems that have stumped and ultimately defeated his predecessors.

Our current administration has such little credibility that possible new managers (and players) are eyed with mistrust and almost considered tarnished by their very willingness to sign up for this madhouse.

The Turkey/Xmas scenario precludes the current custodians of the club from dismantling it willingly - and surely that extends to the level of decision and policy-making power Roeder's successor will be allowed.

Be it training methods, player and staff recruitment, pre-season arrangements or whatever, it seems unlikely that they're prepared to give somebody the freedom to mould the club from end to end. 

After all, we retreated from that very scenario when Martin O'Neill rode into town with a notebook full of initiatives. Someone should have told him we don't do planning round here - just damage limitation and crisis management....

So if all we're doing is replacing one figurehead/patsy with another one, is that anything more than riding on that first wave of new manager positivism (eg Souness registering seven wins and two draws and 22 goals scored in his first nine games)?
 
Back to the visit of Rovers though (who may have gained no fans post-Souness but seem to be a bit happier and less strife-torn under Hughes) and for us, a clear case of new strips, old shite.

It's a typically Newcastle situation to reflect that the seeds of our demise and Glenn's downfall were sown by the act of qualifying for the Intertoto Cup - the very achievement that made United battle the authorities to convert his caretaker stewardship into a more permanent arrangement.

Dirty mackem that he is (and richly deserving of a toe-ending for his unbecoming recent post-match gloating) Reading assistant Kevin Dillon hit the nail on the head when he spoke about gaining nothing from beating teams of waiters in July.

Struggling past successive no-mark XIs, we then embarked on a goal splurge against the most competent side we faced - only for AZ to suss us out by the time we got back to their place.

Those fourteen fixtures though took their toll on us domestically, three of our six signings unable to appear in Europe (Rossi, Onyewu, Bernard) and various injuries reducing our limited personnel options still further.

And the post-Alkmaar throwing in of the towel by numerous players looks more and more as if a decision was made by some in the dressing room that the Intertoto wasn't going to be on the agenda again - we're struggling to explain our loss of form any other way....

Given all that, Roeder deserves credit for keeping us up this season - before "senior players" informed Freddy that he'd lost the dressing room with one game to go.

Taylor has shown some encouraging improvements and welcome signs of maturity that can reasonably be attributed to Roeder or Pearson passing on their defensive wiles.

None of the four other outfielders who did it for us were here last season though - new boys Sibierski and Martins being joined by Butt and Milner returning from exile in the West Midlands. 

Twelve months on we've gone backwards from the side who carved the mackems up on their own ground.

Shearer retired, Chopra sold, Luque not sold, N'Zogbia in bits, Shola and Owen out of the equation, Duff and Dyer a laughing stock. It's been so long since we played well and won that it's difficult to remember what that's like.

That 4-1 reverse at our hands is now being spoken of on wearyside in similar terms to the pivotal 1-2 monsoon defeat that saw off Gullit and strengthened Shearer's status at SJP.

That's perhaps an over-egging of the pudding(s), but it's undeniable that the return of the cavemen from down the road to the big league is focusing minds somewhat.

A poor start to next season in comparison to them would certainly have seen far more spectacular protests in Toon, while it's an easy line to compare and contrast the off-field changes on wearside with the Tyneside Kremlin.

However, talk that the Roeder "resignation" news was leaked to try and keep the championship -winning red and whites off the local back pages is a bit OTT.
 
With no chance of relegation or European qualification, we had an opportunity today to end the home programme on a high note, providing some crumbs of comfort in the form of a victory and a half-way committed display.

That the team singularly failed to do so shows the obvious contempt that the players hold their manager and their public. Now the former has gone, but it's routinely expected that the latter remain loyal - that's loyal to those in power. 

The sight of people hurrying for the exits clad in new forty quid toon shirts or waiting around to abuse their own side is both savagely amusing and embarrassing.

The lack of anger from the stands though is perhaps the most telling aspect of this miserable finale - resignation is the word.

It remains to be seen how many season holders remain in a rotten fettle when the renewals come through the door - certainly nobody will have been inspired to invest a brass farthing in the club after this display.

So for the second year running we bid farewell to a loyal servant of the club.

2006 saw Shearer make his final bow, while Glenn Roeder now departs in vastly reduced circumstances - no testimonial, but with some residual goodwill for his onfield service.

In retrospect, a man who never wanted the job shouldn't have had the job.

Whoever comes in now has to contend with the unique pressures of managing here:

The mindset of the fans, the power of the local media, the structure of the club, the burden of history, the legacy of previous managers and that ability to repeatedly f*ck it up that some call luck or a curse.

Without doing more than changing the name on the office door, it doesn't really matter who takes it - the outcome will be the same.

Fra en Geordie som kommenterer:

Absolutely we've went backwards. If we'd have come 6th or 7th like we would've done if we didn't have the worst injury crisis in the clubs history the FFS would still be there, and that artcile above would be laughable. He had no luck at all Roeder worse than I can ever remember for injuries. We had good players, they were just arseholes who needed someone strong (and good) to sort them oot. I'm chuffed to bit with the start we've had but we still have him in charge and I say again from FMA's in put it's pure chance it's going all right. As soon as we lose 4-0 and Best looks like he used to play like this won't even be an argument.

The fact Ashley is in charge means we've gone backwards, we can no longer dream, we're in a like it or lump it position. We're a very much smaller club now than we were under FFS, supports less we had 70000 people wanting to go to the match now we have 44000 who want to go regular because the board keep telling us we're not as big as we think we are. Fucking pathetic. Even the much smaller Newcastle are twice as big as Villa and Everton, and the LEAST we should expect is 7th. Very much worse position than 2007.

[Flatline]

Hva mener Dere om dette? Spesiellt Hughie, Christian og InspectorC 

[Eriksen]

Er vi dobbelt så store som Everton og Villa? Vi kom fra Championship i fjor..

[Flatline]

Målt i fan-skare, stadium, revenue og litt annet

[Tim Buch]

Liten tvil om at vi har gått bakover de siste årene. Edit: siden vi ble kjøpt opp.

Om ting hadde vært like, bedre eller dårligere om Shepherd fortsatt hadde vært her er umulig å kunne svare på, men det så absolutt dårlig ut. Ser ikke helt hvordan klubben kunne klart å hente nye (bedre) spillere samtidig som de skulle betjent all gjelden og betalt de latterlige lønningene til de mange aldrende og middelmådige spillerne som var i klubben på det tidspunktet.

Derfor er det også vanskelig å svare på om det er pga. Ashley at klubben har gått bakover. Det eneste vi kan si med sikkerhet er at klubben de siste to+ sesongene har hatt en oppadgående kurve, og at grunnlaget for å fortsette denne fremgangen er større enn den har vært på lenge (før FFS ble kjøpt ut til og med).

Det er også vanskelig å se om Ashley er villig til å satse fremover for å få klubben høyere opp enn den er nå. Han virker mer som en som vil la resultatene svare på tiltale fremfor å bruke penger som en indikator på ambisjon, og det er vel og greit det, hvertfall så lenge resultatene er gode, hehe. Dersom vi f.eks ender opp på en dårligere plassering enn i fjor så er det helt klart at det er hold i kritikken mot han om å ikke bruke mer penger på nye spillere.

[Flatline]

Han gjør vel som han vil - som han alltid har gjort. Han er unnskyldt så lenge resultatene kommer,  så han har vært trygg for kritikk enn så lenge.

Jo bedre vi gjør det med dagens lag, så mindre sannsynlig er det vel at vi bruker noe særlig penger i Januar. Ingen enkel problemstilling, for man vil jo ikke at laget skal begynne å tape stort heller - kun for at investeringer skal tvinges frem.

[Hughie]

Hva mener Dere om dette? Spesiellt Hughie, Christian og InspectorC 

Vel skjønner ikke at du adresserer den der til meg, det sier vel litt om hva du har fått med deg av det jeg har snakket om her inne...    God dag mann økseskaft atter en gang...

De er ikke helt på jordet der i kommentarene sine, men han sliter litt med å overbevise meg helt med argumentasjonsmåten sin. Shepherd hadde vært her om det ikke var for en skadekrise? Javel? Selv om jeg skulle kjøpe den så er jeg slettes ikke sikker på at det hadde vært så bra når vi vet det vi vet om styret hans mot slutten.

At Newcastle sportslig sett er dårligere stilt i dag enn i pre-Ashley æraen ser jeg på som rimelig åpenbart om vi ser på det i et kortsiktig perspektiv, er det noen revolusjonerende tanke? Kjempet om CL i flere sesonger kontra å være nesten nyopprykket?   

Men jeg tror likevel at dagens modell er mer bærekraftig på sikt enn den under forrige regime. Iallefall hvis premisset til det forrige regimets suksess er neddummet til at "det gikk dårlig på grunn av en skadekrise og alt annet var gull og grønne skoger", og vurderingen av dagens regime dummes ned til "FMA wants to destroy us".

Aller helst hadde jeg sett en helt annen adminsitrasjon inne i bildet enn disse to, men det vil man jo ikke ta inn over seg at jeg sier... Da det er mye lettere å stemple "pro-ashley" merkelapper på alle som ikke svelger hele den selvmedlidende "alt var så mye bedre før"-mentaliteten eller som forsøker å finne flere brikker i et sammensatt puslespill.

[Hughie]

Bedømmelsen av egen klubb til "Geordie som kommenterer" lukter forøvrig litt mye...vel Geordie som kommenterer.

Dobbelt så store?

Målt i fan-skare, stadium, revenue og litt annet

Hmmm, javel?

Fanskare:
Dobbelt så stor fanskare? OK har du en kilde på det?

Stadium:
Ser på tilskuertallene her da jeg regner med det er det som du peker på, men vår er absolutt finest!
- Aston Villa average attendance 2010/11: 37,220
- Everton average attendance 2010/11: 36,039
- Newcastle average attendance 2010/2011: 46,990
- Newcastle best average attendance ever 1947/48: 56,299
- Vårt gjennomsnitt så langt i år ligger på 45,271 ifølge ESPN, kun slått av Manchester City, Arsenal og Manchester United totalt sett.

Vi er relativt langt fra å være dobbelt så store her, i beste fall er vi ~25%+ større i rent tilskuertall, et godt stykke unna de påståtte 100%. Selv vårt beste snitt noensinne er ikke istand til å nærme seg det dobbelte av de svake tilskuertallene til Everton (eller Villa). Forøvrig er de beste gjennomsnittene for Everton og Villa henholdsvis 51,603 (62-63) og 47,168 (48?49).

Økonomi:
- Aston Villa revenue 2009/10: £89.6m (Nr. 20 i verden)
- Everton revenue 2009/10:  £79.1m (Nr. 27 i verden)
- Newcastle revenue 2009/10: £85.0m Ikke så veldig interessant grunnet Championship men:
- Newcastle best revenue ever recorded 2005/06: £106.0m

Med andre ord er vi langt fra å doble resultatene her. Selv med vår beste revenue noensinne så er vi altså bare knappe 33% foran Everton og avstanden er enda mindre for Villa sin del. Men rekorden fra 05/06 er jo noen år gammel og kanskje ikke så veldig representativ. Avstanden i år kan nok danne et annet bilde når regnskapet for 10/11 kommer. Det skal bli spennende å se hva disse tallene bringer på flere måter... Forutsatt at Villa/Everton opprettholder sin revenue må vi antageligvis nærmest doble vår revenue (med PL-spill fra tidligere sesonger som grunnlag), noe som vil ta oss forbi klubber som Manchester City (£152.8m i 09/10) og Tottenham (146.3m i 09/10).

"Litt annet":
Vet ikke hva dette skal bety, men i forhold til historie så har vi ikke mye på hverken Everton eller Villa. Og iallefall ikke noe som helst som skal tilsi at vi er dobbelt så store.

Om du spør meg rent subjektivt sett så er jo selvsagt Newcastle hundrevis av nummer for store for disse klubbene, men det blir jo noe helt annet! 

Dette er forresten tall som jeg henter fra Deloitte, Wikipedia etc. og har ikke gått kildene så veldig tett i sømmene.

[Hughie]

Han gjør vel som han vil - som han alltid har gjort. Han er unnskyldt så lenge resultatene kommer,  så han har vært trygg for kritikk enn så lenge.

Ikke fra min side, jeg har plenty å kritisere Ashley for jeg uavhengig av resultat. En god ting gjør ikke nødvendigvis at en annen dårlig ting plutselig er god eller ok. Men det kan over tid danne et annet bilde antar jeg. Jeg har vel hele tiden prøvd å få frem at man kan rise og rose ulike aspekt ved driften til enhver tid.

Teskjemodus: For min egen del så går det mye mer på å ha forståelse for at ting er slik de er, snarere enn å være så grådig fornøyd med at de nå engang er slik. 

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Delte svarene inn i flere innlegg for å gi inntrykk av at det ikke var så voldsomt omfattende svar, hehe! Så kan de som synes det var tl;dr forholde seg til det som man vil.

[BenArfa]

STOP IT!

[bjørni]

Haha! Det ligner jo!

[Eriksen]